In September 2024, Faber & Faber published Intermezzo by Sally Rooney. Because it is one of the most awaited books of the year, myriad reviews and podcasts have covered it.
While talking to my creative writing professor, Dr. Senja Andrejevic, we stumbled across the subject. As a Sally Rooney fan myself, I could not help but ask her more about it.
Intermezzo is about two brothers, Peter and Ivan. They are in different stages in life: Peter is in his thirties and is a lawyer; meanwhile, Ivan is in his early twenties and is currently focusing on chess. Involvements with different women have a drastic impact on their common grief surrounding the recent death of their father. Between age gap relationships and loneliness, the two characters open up about their inner feelings.
Is this your first encounter with Sally Rooney?
“This is the first book of hers that I read because I somehow missed when her first book was published. I didn’t read Normal People but I watched a little bit of the TV series which I really hated. Maybe I would have loved the book. Intermezzo is my first book by Rooney. I read it because I wanted to see what the hype was about. Kind of touted as one of the most anticipated books of the moment. I just absolutely loved it. I think I loved it from the first page.”
What were your initial thoughts about her style of writing?
“I thought it [was] very literary but I also found it accessible. It was not dense nor an obstacle to the story but perfectly in tune with it. I saw some reviews on Audible saying ‘I struggled a bit with the philosophy but the story was good’. And I thought actually for me it worked perfectly together and it was really beautiful to listen to as well.”
Sally Rooney has been described as the “first great millennial novelist” and also “the Salinger of the Snapchat generation.” How much do you agree with these statements?
“The first statement almost sounds like she’s a spokesperson for the millennial generation. Whether that’s deserved or not, I think only a millennial can answer because they understand their own concerns. I tend to not divide readers or writers into generations. I think we’re all just active adults kind of living through the same time.
Based on Intermezzo, absolutely! She may be young in age but I felt that the book is really mature literature. It was sophisticated and nuanced. So well written. The psychology of the characters I felt was really complex and well captured. In that sense, I would say that Rooney is either very wise or she has some kind of life experience that goes beyond her biological age.”
For the first time, Sally Rooney explores familial relationships in Intermezzo instead of just focusing on romantic relationships and friendships. Do you think it is important for writers to dissect such relatable issues?
“If you want your work to be commercially successful, then relatability becomes a real imperative. The more people you want to buy your book, the more you have to speak to something that they understand.
As much as Intermezzo is a literary book, it’s still very much in the main stream.
You would expect relatability to be high on the agenda. In that sense, she’s not breaking any new ground. She’s not doing anything revolutionary. I would say she remains within her comfort zone. If she was to write the next novel about Thomas Cromwell then we could say that she’s going outside of her comfort zone.”
As a writer yourself, how important do you think it is to cover themes outside of your comfort zone?
“I don’t think it’s a one size fits all. Writers should write about whatever they want to. If somebody stayed within their comfort zone and providing they have insights and their work is good then staying within their comfort zone doesn’t take anything away from their writing. Equally, if somebody wants to write outside their comfort zone providing they do it justice, I would say go for it.”
One of Sally Rooney’s most distinctive traits is the absence of quotation marks in her dialogue. Why do you think she places an emphasis on this?
“I can’t really speak about her previous books and I also listened to Intermezzo. By taking a look at the book preview on Amazon, I had to see what kind of effect it has on me as a reader.
As Intermezzo is a stream of consciousness book, removing speech marks really fits in with that form so it takes you even deeper into the characters’ point of view.
I don’t know if I can answer the question about the why but I can certainly say about the effect it has on me as a reader.”
She centered her first books around university or students. Since then, she has released books that don’t focus on such storylines. Do you think that that could be because as people age, their priorities change?
“There’s no question that priorities change as we get older. That is just the case with real life. At different ages we want different things and different things come into focus. If we happen to be a writer, that’s very likely reflected in our writing. But obviously it does depend on the genre. If somebody’s writing historical fiction, then their own stage of life will presumably have less impact on their writing. If somebody’s writing crime fiction or if somebody’s always writing romance, then they might be just kind of sticking to a particular formula that works for them.”
Do you think that a lot of writers’ work reflect where they are in life?
“I think when you’re looking at literary fiction, the writers will probably bring quite a lot of themselves into it. Then yes, I think their age will definitely play a part and I think it’s a natural process of maturing. If she forever remained just writing about university life and students, then she wouldn’t be fulfilling her potential. Maybe there is so much more that she observes about life and has the urge to kind of examine on paper. So I’m pleased that she’s moving with the times because it means that she can maximize on her insights as a writer.”
In different interviews, Sally Rooney voices her opinions on politics. A lot of readers are under the assumption that books aren’t political, but to what extent do you think Intermezzo is?
“One of the big plot points and kind of central conflicts in the book is around the kind of the three-way relationship between one of the central male characters and then the two women in his life. The conflict is resolved with a sort of almost like a polyamorous relationship. Just that is very political.
The shape of relationships is something that doesn’t exist in a vacuum, in a society. It’s integrated into society.
It both responds to and influences gender roles. The romantic and sexual relationships we have with other people, they inherently have a political element.
In the other relationship, there are political aspects to it because it’s an age gap relationship. It’s also something that is nowadays increasingly criticized, especially when it comes to the male being much older and the woman being younger. There are concerns around imbalance of power that comes from just maybe life experience or economic position that he or she inverts.
There are political themes in Intermezzo also looking at the very privileged world of academia where two of the characters kind of work. Just looking at their economic privilege versus like the young student who is an Only Fans model. She’s really broke and she’s a type of sex worker. All of those are political things. It’s deeply woven into her narrative. To me, that’s very obvious.”
Honesty is a fundamental aspect of Rooney’s writing. Her characters are vulnerable and show their imperfections in a world where people try to hide them. Do you think this is why her books are so relatable?
“The psychology of the characters felt really convincing. I think that’s a huge thing for any novel because we want to believe in the characters and we want to spend time with them.
It takes me to Walter Fisher’s theory of narrative paradigm. He talks about the two basic ways in which readers will judge a narrative, what aspects are needed for a narrative to feel satisfying and for us to be able to suspend our disbelief. I think you could apply that to character psychology as well. So yes, absolutely. Vulnerability and honesty are hugely important because then we can kind of suspend our disbelief and accept her characters as real people. Obviously part of us knows that it’s fiction, but we feel like they’re saying or representing something real. Whereas if there are too idolized — we have enough of that on Instagram and TikTok — I don’t think that we need any more of that in literary fiction. So I think she does a very good job with that.
The historian I often refer to, Harari, talks about a difference between truth and fiction. His latest book is about information networks. In interviews, he gives information about whether information equals truth. And he claims that it absolutely doesn’t…Most information is just junk…but also he talks a lot about the difference between truth and fiction and how generally people prefer fiction because fiction can often be simplified. It can be black and white. We can have the good guys and the bad guys.
It’s just much more palatable and easier to digest, and…people like to move away from the truth because truth can be messy. Maybe that’s where the split comes in the perceptions of Rooney’s writing.
The honesty of her characters appeals to people who generally have a preference for…truth in real life.
Some readers who prefer to go to fiction for escapism, you know, then maybe they find that the honesty of her characters just makes her escapism a bit harder to achieve.”
Navigating heavy subjects like grief and loneliness, Intermezzo is not for everyone, as Dr. Senja Andrejevic highlighted. The reader gains insight into the mundane lives of her characters. Her style is rather simple, but it is nonetheless full of underlying themes and ideas that are very deep. Philosophical and cultural references are everywhere. Whether you are a Sally Rooney fan or not, you should definitely give her books a try.
Johanna (Annie) Weeks
December 28, 2024 at 11:31 pm
This is a terrific article. I also really enjoyed intermezzo. Rooney is great at capturing the inner life of characters. One small point: it would be worth doing another proofreading of the article.
Mark Youse
December 30, 2024 at 7:40 pm
Thanks for this Georgia, I finished reading the book today, so, still working through how its landing with me. Something that shows up for me is the idea that the apparently socially able elder brother has everything that young men are encouraged to aspire to, right on job that pays ok, ability to be an easy part of a social group and also to form and manage relationships with a variety of different women, while the younger brother struggles with the most basic forms of social interaction. Yet it is the older brother who when challenged to be real, to be honest, struggles to the point of suicidiality. Seeing these young men work out what they need and how they manage to express that through the eyes of three very different women, shines light on the lack of access that so many young and older men struggle with… to find a safe place to share outside their closest partner and fear and imagine the shame and humiliation of “not being normal”… lots more for me in this book but this theme of men learning how to become emotionally available and step beyond the limiting stereotypes of a successful modern straight man really comes through for me.
Bethan Croft
December 31, 2024 at 2:20 pm
I read Normal People and Conversations With Friends and now Intermezzo is definitely on my read list for 2025! This was a very insightful read – I love knowing what other people think of a book before I read it myself